We need your voice, please vote

[Mohammed B]

We need your voice, please vote

http://news.aol.co.uk/veil-row-straw-digs-deeper/article/20061006030809990001

[james]

It is important in society to understand the customs and adapt. Mr. Straw is correct and in order to be a good member of society it is important to be grateful and supportive of it. Disturbing the peace by wearing clothing that is not acceptable in a modern and free society is not being a good citizen.

It is the wise choice to support the societial values, be grateful for the opportunities and freedom and move up with the times...

[..pure..]

Well, I don't agree with you brother James at all.. I don't belive that there is a Muslim could give up his religion instructions.. don't you realize that they are working hard to make us loose our identity?!

Thank you brother Mohammed for adding this link.

[james]

thanks pure, I was never suggesting giving up religion, where on earth did you get that?

this has to do with being a supportive member of society. The values of women need to be recognized and wearing this restrictive, old fashioned waredrope is a security risk and is not practice.

I have no idea why people can't understand that this outfit is not necessary for women to be good Islamists.

This is not helpful at all for Muslim Women who are protected and treated with respect, given equal opportunities etc.

The modern Muslim woman is a role model, and shows that she is able to contribute to society and take opportunites such as education and employment such as on the police force, or even the military defending the countries that have been so kind and generous.

[Milanista23]

thanks pure, I was never suggesting giving up religion, where on earth did you get that?

this has to do with being a supportive member of society. The values of women need to be recognized and wearing this restrictive, old fashioned waredrope is a security risk and is not practice.

We have given you a lot of opportunities, but this above paragraph is only an insult to Muslim women! You can't just insult our people by saying that their clothes are restrective & old fashioned and even a risk!! You have gone too far with your ugly comments and you better behave yourself!



I have no idea why people can't understand that this outfit is not necessary for women to be good Islamists.

Who are you to say that? Who are you to say what is necessary and what is not necessary for a MUSLIM!! You have shown very weak knowledge (Full of lies) about Islam and now you come to say that the outfit is not necessary!

You no nothing, but you are just speaking for nothing!



This is not helpful at all for Muslim Women who are protected and treated with respect, given equal opportunities etc.

The modern Muslim woman is a role model, and shows that she is able to contribute to society and take opportunites such as education and employment such as on the police force, or even the military defending the countries that have been so kind and generous.

For your information, the Muslim women are given good opportunities even with the clothes that they were. Too many women convert to Islam because Islam gives women their true high degree of respect. But it seems you have no idea about what is going around the world!

[nour of islam]

thanks pure, I was never suggesting giving up religion, where on earth did you get that?

this has to do with being a supportive member of society. The values of women need to be recognized and wearing this restrictive, old fashioned waredrope is a security risk and is not practice.

I have no idea why people can't understand that this outfit is not necessary for women to be good Islamists.

This is not helpful at all for Muslim Women who are protected and treated with respect, given equal opportunities etc.

The modern Muslim woman is a role model, and shows that she is able to contribute to society and take opportunites such as education and employment such as on the police force, or even the military defending the countries that have been so kind and generous.

we have high certificates in colleges & universities, & we have lots of contributions in the society, & we are not hired in firms or anywhere depending on our body measures or the make up or hair style, but rather depending on our education & experience in work.

[james]

We have given you a lot of opportunities, but this above paragraph is only an insult to Muslim women! You can't just insult our people by saying that their clothes are restrective & old fashioned and even a risk!! You have gone too far with your ugly comments and you better behave yourself!

I am not insulting Muslim women in the least, l am being extremely modern and supportive, and the dress of modern and successful Muslim women is lovely, not the full out dark costumes...so to suggest that my comments are negative is very very wrong of you...

And in terms of education, l have been totally inspired by highly educated Muslim women of the Western world.

I think you are being cruel and insulting, and you have completely mis-understood my comments, which are based on freedom for the Muslim women.

[..pure..]

Excuse me, but I think you should be dismissed from this forum..Because you're calling for nonsense which no real Muslim women could pay attention to so, you're place is not here in this " Iman way forum"

[Milanista23]

I am not insulting Muslim women in the least, l am being extremely modern and supportive, and the dress of modern and successful Muslim women is lovely, not the full out dark costumes...so to suggest that my comments are negative is very very wrong of you...

And in terms of education, l have been totally inspired by highly educated Muslim women of the Western world.

I think you are being cruel and insulting, and you have completely mis-understood my comments, which are based on freedom for the Muslim women.

You don't seem to realize that you have already insulted Muslim women here who are not happy with your reaction and you could see the reply of some of the sisters like Nour of Islam. So, you have insulted and you are continuing to insult.

Muslim women have no problem to wear dark customs and it is not your problem of what they wear if they like it. We fully understand your comments and I understand that you prefer half naked women in the streets so that you can "scan" every detail of them with your eyes rather than seeing fully covered women.

You don't seem to understand what freedom mean and I think brother Nacho Libre gave you a very good lecture about your racist comments.

I quote his post so that you re-read it again:


The only thing I have noticed is that instead of engaging in a constructive dialogue, you are more interested in mocking Muslim women because you do not like their clothing. And then you have the nerve to talk about being "modern" and "liberal."

What kind of a "liberal" are you who is not willing to tolerate anyone who dresses differently than the outfit you are accustomed to? Do you know that the world consists of many, many different communities, all of whom dress differently and are proud of their clothing? Why must anyone dress like an American or an Australian or a British to be "civilized" and "modern"? Everything you say displays your utter lack of respect and tolerance towards others.

Just because someone dresses differently than us does not mean that they are "inferior" or "uncivilized" and "less modern."

[Houda Karkour]

It is important in society to understand the customs and adapt. Mr. Straw is correct and in order to be a good member of society it is important to be grateful and supportive of it. Disturbing the peace by wearing clothing that is not acceptable in a modern and free society is not being a good citizen.

It is the wise choice to support the societial values, be grateful for the opportunities and freedom and move up with the times...

I have just read your answers James and I would like to go step by step with your comments. First of all, I have to point out that the Islamic clothes have already been used by the Jews and Christians in the olden times. Just have a look at Shakespeare's plays they do sometimes. An American man has told me that the Christians used to wear like us- the Muslim women. There have been a great deal with the science and religion in your world and this is why Darwin and Freud have been succeeding in your societies to fertilize the thoughts of nudity and illegal relationships to the sense of modern life, great civilization, and also development. This fact is the total truth. In our religion, you can be very modern and open-minded while you can keep your religious principles and ethical codes of daily life. What really happens to Muslims today is that most of them take the superficial side of religion while they keep themselves away from the nub of religion that leads to a great civilization. Do you think that the nudity and the freedom of ethics- Here I mean having illegal relationships with men for instance- would give you back a well-established family? Would it dwindle the rate of psychologically sick people who end up with suicide? Would Freedom give people strong personality and real love without material intentions. I am not against you or I dislike you...No I am not...I am just trying to show you that religion- the true religion of God- would not lead human beings to hurt the others or disturb them by their clothes and their prayers. Look deeply at the heart of the others...The security of a society can be working out by the real understanding of the others...Difference does not mean hatred or at least misunderstanding. It simply means that the world is huge and we have conceive everything occurs in the world...Look at the trees you can see different colors...Look at the food you eat, you cannot accept to eat one type of food...Not to mention, Can you tell a nun, why do you wear your clothes? Or a Religious Jewish woman, why do you wear this type of clothes.? In our culture, we accept the Jews and the Christians as they are...Look at the history of the Islamic civilization, it has never been question of clothes to judge people as long as they are going along with the run of society and they can be really good friends...

[Houda Karkour]

thanks pure, I was never suggesting giving up religion, where on earth did you get that?

this has to do with being a supportive member of society. The values of women need to be recognized and wearing this restrictive, old fashioned waredrope is a security risk and is not practice.

I have no idea why people can't understand that this outfit is not necessary for women to be good Islamists.

This is not helpful at all for Muslim Women who are protected and treated with respect, given equal opportunities etc.

The modern Muslim woman is a role model, and shows that she is able to contribute to society and take opportunites such as education and employment such as on the police force, or even the military defending the countries that have been so kind and generous.

In your answer right here, I have to tell you that truth and justice have never been considered as old fashioned matters even if they were known from the beginning of the human life till today. Being a liar is still rejected ...Being a traitor is a dangerous crime...
These good ethics have never been old fashioned. Any civilization wants to survive needs to set up on these great principles and good ethics. Otherwise, having the high technology would mean nothing for the maker of this technology is empty from inside. Don't forget that anyone who is empty from inside will self-destractor...S/He will destroy herself/himself by her/his own acts...The clothes of Islam are like these good ethics...They keep up good and well-united family to have a well-established society to end up with a wonderful civilization.
What about telling that Muslim women cannot participate in the police force or the military shows that you have no idea about the history of Islam..Let me tell you that Muslim women were very able to defend their civilization and their army by having such works. They have been also warriors...Read the history of Muslims and you will knows these facts.
I can mention to you a name: Khawla Bint Al AZWAR.
Once more, I have to tell you politely that you are not in position to judge instead of the Muslim woman what fits her the best in the society. If you accept as I am and as I feel truly I would share the same thing with you and I would be very cooperative for I would feel that this is my beautiful society.

[Qais]

Assalam alekum to all,

Brother james raised very good argument but he is talking about modern and new fashion,so I want ask him "what is modern and new fashion ?" Is it women of USA & Italy wearing cloths which showing most of body parts or hungarian or ireland women showing all the part of the body.if these are the fashion and modern things then stop! we don't wants these things to be applying in our mother or sisters or any muslim womens because Hijab is not a cloths but identity of muslim women.Most important this the commandment of ALLAH (S.W) the Allmighty god for whole of humanity.

Regards,
Qais

[katrina1]

this is the silliest thread I have ever turned onto on the Iman way boards! Who cares what ANY religion wears? I think the dress of Muslim women is neet myself and I'm Christian. I wouldn't want to have to wear the face covering though. I have asthma and cannot breath with anything over my face. Truly though, I like the style of the Muslims. I just wonder why men are dressed differently? Real question there to. I have always wondered that.Oh, I am also American, and I can say there are many people here who like the style.

[Hashmi]

this is the silliest thread I have ever turned onto on the Iman way boards! Who cares what ANY religion wears? I think the dress of Muslim women is neet myself and I'm Christian. I wouldn't want to have to wear the face covering though. I have asthma and cannot breath with anything over my face. Truly though, I like the style of the Muslims. I just wonder why men are dressed differently? Real question there to. I have always wondered that.Oh, I am also American, and I can say there are many people here who like the style.





I wouldn't want to have to wear the face covering though. I have asthma and cannot breath with anything over my face.

As far as I know, I think the face cover is not compulsory in Islam. What is compulsory is the Hijab, ( which is pretty much like the way nuns cover themselves ).

The Islamic dress code for women is:


Covering of whole body except face, feet and hands.


I just wonder why men are dressed differently? Real question there to. I have always wondered that


What do you mean by difference.

Difference no 1. The COMPULSORY covering of men is from Navel to knees. Where as for women is whole body except face,hands and feet. { I dont think there should be any objection to this }

Difference no 2. Women have to cover their heads while mean do not.


Well there would be a variety of reasons. Mainly the difference between the nature of man and woman.

I once heard a nice reply on this.

Men are usually more immodest than women. So for example, consider that there is a woman and a man. Who will get bad thoughts on seeing the other? The man or the woman. From what I know of some of my immodest classfellows, the answer is "man"

A woman would not get tempted on seeing a man without his head covered, but a man WOULD get tempted on seeing a woman without the head covered.

Ofcourse thats just one reason, that I personally felt convincing.

[nour of islam]

this is the silliest thread I have ever turned onto on the Iman way boards! Who cares what ANY religion wears? I think the dress of Muslim women is neet myself and I'm Christian. I wouldn't want to have to wear the face covering though. I have asthma and cannot breath with anything over my face. Truly though, I like the style of the Muslims. I just wonder why men are dressed differently? Real question there to. I have always wondered that.Oh, I am also American, and I can say there are many people here who like the style.
Salam (Peace) Katrina,

I found answers to your question by a muslim scholar :
(With regard to women covering their faces, we can say that it is not obligatory, as the questioner implies, but it is recommended. Some women do cover their faces for the purpose of attaining Allah's greater reward. However, if a woman finds it difficult to cover her face, she is obliged to conform to the Islamic code of dress, which requires covering her entire body save her face and hands.")
source (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544114)

& in this link (http://muttaqun.com/malehijab.html) you can find description of the male hijab.

[SuleimanAlSaqer]

To Mr james , I wish to say that this Hijab, is instucted by our Creator who is the Lord of this whole being... It's not the outcome of human mind judgment at all ........
Furthermore, this instruction is forwarded to mankind in a miracle book the "Quraan" which nobody could match, nobody could alter !!!...
Enemies of all kinds of huge armies, huge abilities , and perhaps mountains of gold and silvers in service to change just a word of it but they failed....!! That's a proof that the Quraan is the Word of Allah, the maker of this universe .....
In it is the instruction of Islam and the Hijab wearing is among it !!

That's firstly, and secondly , the western democracy which accepts all kinds of corruption and morals destruction of all kind and even those who tend to change even their nature, and even 'their' values which will destruct mankind himself at the long run, can not accept a woman covering her head !!!.
What a shame is that ........... That mean's it is false ... completely false....

[katrina1]

It is important in society to understand the customs and adapt. Mr. Straw is correct and in order to be a good member of society it is important to be grateful and supportive of it. Disturbing the peace by wearing clothing that is not acceptable in a modern and free society is not being a good citizen.

It is the wise choice to support the societial values, be grateful for the opportunities and freedom and move up with the times...


Hello James,
I tend to disagree with you completely concerning the dress of and individual being an important part of one supporting modern FREE society. Our freedom here in America is what allows us to dress as we choose to. I would MUCH perfer seeing one wear the garb of islam than to be FORCED due to our freedom, to have to view the buttocks of some of our men who walk around with their pants below their butts and calling it MODERN style. I would MUCH rather be faced with the garb of Islam than to see a man PARADE around with no shirt on (regardless of his culture). I think these two things are absolutely disgusting.
What a person wears is not what makes him a contributing part of a society. HIS BEHAVIOR DOES. Why on earth would one's dress (extremely conservative at that) have a negative effect on a society? How EVER is the Muslim dress disturbing the peace??? I think a MODERN bikini is much more disturbing of the peace. Have you seen some of the truly out of the way styles we are wearing here in America? What about the fact that some cities are actually banning the baggy pants? Exposing one's backside is disturbing. Wearing nice looking outfits which cover the body is not disturbing the peace or disrupting our society. Where did you come up with such an idea? Jeeeeeeeeesse
What other dress styles do you feel are inappropriate for a modern FREE society?
OH, and please remember that I am a FREE, CHRISTIAN, AMERICAN.

[katrina1]

It is important in society to understand the customs and adapt. Mr. Straw is correct and in order to be a good member of society it is important to be grateful and supportive of it. Disturbing the peace by wearing clothing that is not acceptable in a modern and free society is not being a good citizen.

It is the wise choice to support the societial values, be grateful for the opportunities and freedom and move up with the times...

By the way,,,,, Mr Straw is talking about the face covering being a security threat not the overall dress (or at least that is what I understood). Here in America, (don't know where you are), we had a similar issue come up. The DMV wants for women to remove them to have pictures taken for their ID. This I can understand. And to a degree, I can understand that if I don't know who I am talking to, I don't want to talk to them. BUT, you seem to be saying that Muslim women's overall dress is behind times and therefore unacceptable. NOPE can't agree with you. Modern society which you speek of is a free society which allows one to wear what he chooses to wear. Especially where it comes to religion.

[katrina1]

To Mr james , I wish to say that this Hijab, is instucted by our Creator who is the Lord of this whole being... It's not the outcome of human mind judgment at all ........
Furthermore, this instruction is forwarded to mankind in a miracle book the "Quraan" which nobody could match, nobody could alter !!!...
Enemies of all kinds of huge armies, huge abilities , and perhaps mountains of gold and silvers in service to change just a word of it but they failed....!! That's a proof that the Quraan is the Word of Allah, the maker of this universe .....
In it is the instruction of Islam and the Hijab wearing is among it !!

That's firstly, and secondly , the western democracy which accepts all kinds of corruption and morals destruction of all kind and even those who tend to change even their nature, and even 'their' values which will destruct mankind himself at the long run, can not accept a woman covering her head !!!.
What a shame is that ........... That mean's it is false ... completely false....

Sorry to say, but western democracy will not destroy man. MAN will destroy man. Our not accepting one another. War, hate, and finally God Himself will allow prophsey to come about. Democracy does not destroy man. It allows man to make his own choices. Only through freedom can you know if one is true in heart as to his societal and religous beliefs. Freedom allows him to display his true self. True freedom is all accepting one another for who they are. Only God has the right to judge. It is not man's place. Even Adam and Eve were given choice. Choice is what freedom is all about. And, freedom and choice is what western democracy is all about. Even in western democracy we have societal laws (smile). Yes, we truly do. If we break the laws of our society which are BASICALLY setup in tune with THE LAW and THE COMMANDMENTS set forth by Moses which were sent down by the finger of God, we are punished. We do not kill one another in our judicial system unless murder has taken place. In some instances, treason and the such are crimes in which the death penalty is given. Other than that, we are a peacefull society.
Democracy does not kill. People do.

[SuleimanAlSaqer]

Sorry to say, but western democracy will not destroy man. MAN will destroy man. Our not accepting one another. War, hate, and finally God Himself will allow prophsey to come about. Democracy does not destroy man. It allows man to make his own choices. Only through freedom can you know if one is true in heart as to his societal and religous beliefs. Freedom allows him to display his true self. True freedom is all accepting one another for who they are. Only God has the right to judge. It is not man's place. Even Adam and Eve were given choice. Choice is what freedom is all about. And, freedom and choice is what western democracy is all about. Even in western democracy we have societal laws (smile). Yes, we truly do. If we break the laws of our society which are BASICALLY setup in tune with THE LAW and THE COMMANDMENTS set forth by Moses which were sent down by the finger of God, we are punished. We do not kill one another in our judicial system unless murder has taken place. In some instances, treason and the such are crimes in which the death penalty is given. Other than that, we are a peacefull society.
Democracy does not kill. People do.

Thank you very much Katrine1 for your highly esteemed ideas...
But we all admit, or should admit, that there are evil men who want to destroy .... The Lord has told us that , and he promised them with hellfire. We must believe He never do that if they dont deserve that punishment... that the maker of this huge beautiful system of the being will never grieve anybody......


So the man made systems dont apply the correct ruling systems which prevent evil men doing their actions. The say about the destructive seeds are good !!!
and the good is bad .....

How man stand to his maker and say : No .. this is right and that is wrong...!!in other words man is appointing himself as more intelligent and skillful than his creator !!
It's excactly like the Satan (devil).................

[eyad alhumaidan]

Alsalam alikum,
I would like to add that we should not judge the book by the cover.We should not judge people by their clothes but by their actions.Bearded-men or veiled women are looked upon as being extremists or even terrorists where they can be some of the most peaciful people of the world.This is the truth.Their hearts are full of love to the world and they are a real addition to human civilization also actually like the great muslim scholars and scientists as we see their minds are full of benefecial ideas for human race.But i think that this idea must change first and the book should not be judged by the cover.

[SuleimanAlSaqer]

Assalamu Alykum
Thank you brother Al Humaidan, thank you very much.....
We want the good for all humanity, we want to get them saved and in happiness in both lives , this wordly live and the everlasting after live. Any other system of live never bring man happiness in the after life.... whatever happiness they have in this life, they are going to depart one of these days . They depart when they die .....!!Except the genuine passage of Islam, which bring man happiness in both lives and that with ultimatum proof and miracleous evidence ....!!!

Moreover , in our calling people for Islam, We use only the honest good word ...!

[Houda Karkour]

thank you all for your valuable participation

[Tisatashar]

The 'red herring' of undressing our women as a equal rights/freedom thingie is B/S. The christians & jews are working to a goal. And that is by 'de-islamizing' a mother means that you destroy the muslims future. Their children. If the mother is converted to a secular outlook then the children will follow in her footsteps.

[amar_labedi]

Assalamalikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

The matter of Veil/Parda specially covering face is become a hot topic these days

May Allah guide us to straight path Ameen...
Do men imagine that they will be left (at ease) because they say, We believe, and will not be tested with affliction?
Lo! We tested those who were before you. Thus Allah knoweth those who are sincere, and knoweth those who feign.
(The Noble Quran 29:2-3)